If Blood was done today

[Lizzieborden]

Ok, all's well.
Had me worried
So the good folks at that quake forum hated your idea of a story. Buncha miscreants
For me, story is everything. Even if it is left up to imagination (such as blood) to fill in all the blanks. In fact filling in blanks is what galvanizes the imagination, non?

Quake is great, esp the atmosphere and music. Still need to get around to scourge and dissolution. I have the original big boxes but am tired of relying on my uncle's 98 rig and booting to Dos for older games. Sure, the ole rig has a diamond voodoo card (not sure which one i think voodoo 1) .......but i sure like widescreen, dynamic lighting, etc...so maybe the nightdive port is the way to go even if they messed up the blood port.
I know "Nightdive " is verboten territory for bloodites ,including me. But surely not all their work is that bad. Doom 64 was cool ,for instance.
Perhaps quake as well
Any advice? Nightdive yay or nay for quake ?
Hoping all is well for ya in Estonia
Cheers (margarita No 3 after a busy night !!)


sheesh...here I go being chatty again.

[Daedalus]

Hi Lizzie!

I haven't looked into it myself, but supposedly some or most of Nightdive's re-releases and remasters have been fairly good. It seems that the Fresh Supply travesty is something of an exception. Do be sure to let us know if you decide to check them out. I'd also love to see pictures of those big boxes of Quake. You're really lucky to have an ancient computer like that in working order, as well. I thought of creating one dedicated specifically to Blood a few years ago, but on second thought it didn't really seem financially feasible to source all the old components that are susceptible to damage.

We are veering a little off-topic in this particular thread, though.

[Lizzieborden]

Yeah, my posts in this topic about "Blood done today" are veering into big box collecting territory.(Sorry about that )

This thread should of course go back to "Blood done today" ideas. it was getting juicy, too, esp the music part.
So I'll end this tangent by adding that in the "big box collecting" topic, 'll post pics of whatever big box games you want if I have 'em. Just message me privately (or in the topic thread itself) for the ones that tickle your fancy!
I have quite a few. Pretty mainstream, nothing fancy. Blood is one of 'em , same for Cryptic passage (not plasma pack though... )

[Vantala]

For me, story is everything. Even if it is left up to imagination (such as blood) to fill in all the blanks. In fact filling in blanks is what galvanizes the imagination, non?

Well, sometimes more is less - Monolith decided to add more story in Blood 2, and it didn't turn out to be good. I get the point "we're here to rocket jump and shoot Lovecraftian monsters", but I disagree with the "we DON'T WANT the story to MAKE SENSE" statement.

Sadly, can't say anything about Quake source ports or whatever, and I haven't tried new Quake remaster yet. Right now, I'm playing Ion Fury - half of the enemies are just annoying AF, but boy, the visual design is stellar.

[Lizzieborden]

Ion fury is da bomb!
Played it last year. Waiting for DLC
Quake remastered: I am still behind (still haven;t played the Dissolution of Eternity mission pack. Bu I DID play Arcane Dimensions. Majestic !
Cheers after a great night in Ankara club: sweaty weather with thunderstorm and brooding atmosphere. Bloodite weather !
If Blood were done today, definite stress on thunderstorms and rain. Perhaps snow in a remake of overlooked motel.
I love the snow effects in Pulp fiction addon.

[Lizzieborden]

oops..
Typos galore in previous post. To many bloody Marys

[Dead Reckoner]

This was a nice read, thanks for sharing. Your ideas definitely don’t suck, but there’s a few things I would envision differently.

Every devout Bloodite knows about Caleb’s wild west origin story, but beyond that, how much of the game itself could be deemed western? The vibe is very old world to me, with the European-looking cities, presence of ancient temples and catacombs, and the deep roots of the Cabal itself. Early pre-release commentary stated that Blood was to be set in Transylvania, which probably had a bigger impact on the design and art direction than the late addition of the protagonist as a gunslinger from Texas. There’s Caleb’s appearance, but he could just as easily be a prohibition era mobster as he could be a cowboy.

As exotic as the wild west is for Blood, it would nevertheless be interesting to see someone pull off a new chapter in it if consistency with the original game/episodes is maintained.

I’m less sure about moving the time period down to the 1800s. I know you brought this up as an idea for a prequel, but in my opinion, Blood’s setting that mixes the 20s/30s with the modern and futuristic is part of its soul, and the 19th century would be far too archaic, perhaps even as detached as Blood 2 was in the other direction. Blood’s time period is ambiguous enough to allow historical flexibility, and you could just say the wild west lasted longer in this universe, or depict a dying west being tamed and supplanted by modernization, like in Red Dead Redemption. Keeping Blood’s original era also opens up a lot more gun variety which is needed for a game that is meant to have nearly 40 weapons spread across four different characters.

- Re: Arenas. One of my chief complaints about Doom 2016 was its gameplay being centered around pushing a button, being locked in places that resemble skate parks and fighting waves of spawning enemies. I enjoyed Doom Eternal far more, it felt like a perfected and balanced version of the FPS/Hack and Slash hybrid gameplay Doom 2016 tried to do. While Eternal still followed the same basic formula, the arenas were more varied and better integrated into the rest of the map. Still, I would be disappointed if a future Blood 3 followed suit as being yet another arena shooter and would prefer the classic formula with exploration and combat being more seamless.

- I agree with Daedalus that an announcer would bring too much goof into the perfect balance of arcadey and immersive that Blood currently holds. But it's a must for a multiplayer mode, and Blood already does that.

- Doom glory kills are like shorter and more numerous QTEs, not a big fan. I liked Shadow Warrior 3’s version of glory kills better where the opportunities to perform them are rare and tied to a resource.

Monsters:
First thing first, the game would NOT include gargoyles, spiders and hell hounds - they are the children of three Tchrnobog lieutenants who were given an order not to interfere and let the Chosen and the other cultists kill each other for Tchernobog's amusement. However, it's supposed to include classic Gill Beasts - their master is going to be killed by Ishmael - and Phantasms - their lord is the final boss. No wonder why in Blood they hate Caleb so much...
Fishers: I just like the idea of half-human, half-Gill Beast enemies. Maybe they could be throwing harpoons at the player, pulling him closer... yeah the players would hate them (except when they play as Gabriella).
Graboid: okay, we all know, that many monsters from Blood were referenses to classic horror monsters. So... why not make a Tremors reference - enemies that attack the player from underground? They are the children of the Great Sand Wyrm, whom Caleb kills first.
????? - I haven't yet decided who should be the children of the second (Ophelia's) episode boss. Maybe Ghouls (D&D-like or Lovecraft-like)? Or let's search American folklore for, like, Jersey Devils - who would not be gargoyles but whould behave like gargoyles? Or vampire-like giant bat-creatures that would, again, behave like gargoyles?
????? - okay, the third episode takes place in the frozen north, so I have two candidates for Winter King children. First, Bigfoot/Sasquatch - ape-like brutes living in remote places, attacking the player with their big fists and throwing heavy objects and him. Second - let's dig the Native American folklore for Wendigo... what should they look like? Skinny ghoul-like cannibalistic creatures with deer antlers? Skinny creatures with bloody stumps for legs, floating in the air and attacking the player with their ice magic? Or bloodthirsty furry giants with horned heads? They should be throwing ice projectiles at the player... if their ice magic slows the player, the players are gonna hate them.

- Not all gargoyles, hellhounds and spiders are necessarily part of their respective boss’s brood. Besides, a minor story technicality wouldn’t be reason enough to remove a monster as iconic to Blood as the gargoyle.

- Hitscan enemies should stay, just with nerfed accuracy and reaction times. But more projectile variety in monsters is welcome - homing, floorhugging, player-leading, arcing, etc.

- The graboid is an interesting concept. Would it be able to hide “beneath” sand sectors and ambush the player by jumping out following an auditory cue?

I think a Cabal wizard would be better off armed with a projectile-based attack, as an incoming voodoo doll attack would be hard to telegraph visually. Such arch-vile style behavior is a better fit for the "wendigo".

It's implied that gill beasts are half human to begin with... would that make the fishers 3/4? Might be a good idea for a new class of gun-toting hitscan enemies in the form of Innsmouth villagers.

[Vantala]

Dead Reckoner, thank you! Sorry for me answering two months late... but better late than never.

Yes, maybe leaning too much into arcade shooter territory wasn't such a good idea - Doom 2016 is not everyone's cup of tea.
Speaking of setting... yeah, venturing deep into Wild West territory would result in a major shift in tone. I wanted to try different tones for different chapters (Wild West for Caleb, gothic horror for Ophelia, frozen North/Native American for Gabriella, Lovecraftian with lots of mad scientists for Ishmael), but yeah, not everyone would accept the challenge.

- The graboid is an interesting concept. Would it be able to hide “beneath” sand sectors and ambush the player by jumping out following an auditory cue?

That would be cool, but I fear it would require a lot of effort not to make the graboids neither too dumb nor too annoying. Does anyone remember good examples of subterranean monsters from any other games? I feel like making them function in Build engine, where the floor is usually a flat surface, would be easier than in "real" 3D engines...

I think a Cabal wizard would be better off armed with a projectile-based attack, as an incoming voodoo doll attack would be hard to telegraph visually.

True.

Might be a good idea for a new class of gun-toting hitscan enemies in the form of Innsmouth villagers.

Should they be a reskinned version of normal cultists or be really different in tactics/abilities?

[Dead Reckoner]

No worries, time passes slowly around the altar anyway.

Yes, maybe leaning too much into arcade shooter territory wasn't such a good idea - Doom 2016 is not everyone's cup of tea.
Speaking of setting... yeah, venturing deep into Wild West territory would result in a major shift in tone. I wanted to try different tones for different chapters (Wild West for Caleb, gothic horror for Ophelia, frozen North/Native American for Gabriella, Lovecraftian with lots of mad scientists for Ishmael), but yeah, not everyone would accept the challenge.

Sounds good. Level variety is one of Blood's strong suites which set it apart from most FPS games, and any worthy sequel should aim for it.

That would be cool, but I fear it would require a lot of effort not to make the graboids neither too dumb nor too annoying. Does anyone remember good examples of subterranean monsters from any other games? I feel like making them function in Build engine, where the floor is usually a flat surface, would be easier than in "real" 3D engines...

Hexen has aquatic enemies that "submerge" themselves in sectors meant to represent shallow water. There's also wraiths in the God of War series that burrow underground and can be pulled back out with a grapple attack. Caleb could perform something like that with a lasso or grappling hook.

Should they be a reskinned version of normal cultists or be really different in tactics/abilities?

Slightly different behavior so they're not pure reskins. Different weapons, like pistols which give them half the firing rate of fanatics, molotov cocktails instead of TNT, etc. Perhaps a chance to morph into a gill beast instead of dying.

[Vantala]

Yeah, I remember Stalkers from Hexen. Sadly, I haven't played any of the God of War games... the "latest" games I played at all were Ion Fury and Wrath: Aeon of Ruin. My Potato Computer is a potato.

Morphing into Gill Beasts after death souns like a cool idea!